Study Break/ Interesting Interpretation - Posted by Tim

Wednesday, February 18, 2009

Prince and Cinderella..musical...- Posted by Tim at 11:53 PM

Study Break/ Interesting Interpretation

Prince and Cinderella..musical...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FZXU8WZ2xo

Zipes on disney

The basic arguments that I got from the reading was...
By monopolizing the animation film industry and making fairy tales a flashy spectacle or cheap trick, Disney violated the fairy tale tradition to the extreme. Disney tailors the tales to his specific fit and captivates his audience so much as they don't care that his stories are flat as long as they are aesthetically magnificent or entertaining. Audiences become so blinded by his works that they fail to notice or embrace others mostly because he has put on a good show but sometimes and rarely he appeals to the American spirit.
Zipes goes through great lengths to explain the origin of fairy tales. He states that fairy tales come from an oral tradition and with that tradition comes a sense of community, shared experience and beliefs. The literary tradition, although it destroys fairy tales by making them private and for certain classes, it still has contained in it communal beliefs or ways of behaving. The move to film destroys all communal ties and makes the tale about the individual, that is the illustrator. The image not the the tale or what is encoded in the tale has the most staying power. Disney entirely kills the fairy tales by making them mostly about his experiences and projecting his works as a product of one pair of hands. This is evident in the interpretations of his Puss in Boots and Snow White. Disney further slaughters the fairy tale by not making the focus what audiences can learn from the tale or infer about society. Disney focuses on technology, modernity and aesthetics. Fairy tales are the examples of the advancement of technology. Fairy tales are diversions, images, spectacles or tricks and we are not suppose to read into them. "Everything is one the surface, one-dimesional, and we are to delight in its one-dimensional portrayal and thinking." It comfortable, fun, easy and adorable. Disney has stopped the thinking audience and its imagination. I agree with Zipes argument in that it is difficult today for me to think of films of fairy tales without thinking of Disney. On the first day of class when we were asked to think of other films it took me a couple of hours later to come up with one that was not a disney animation or film. I mostly remember liking disney films especially for its charming qualities and catchy tunes. I don't think I ever learned anything from the disney films I just thought they were great shows.

Zipes Vs Disney

Zipes begin by questioning the "spell" Disney has on modern day options of fairtales.  While Zipes acknowledges that Disney did not completely "divest the meaning of fairytales and replace them with his own." He does state, however that Disney took all meaning out of fairytales.  While fairytales were once tribal folklore to express natural occurrences and communal harmony, Disney turned fairytales into an unobtainable goal of a utopian dreams with false hopes and promises. 

While I acknowledge that Disney changed the American view of fairytales forever; in part by taking away from the original life lessons of fairytales. More importantly i find it extremely fascinating how Disney managed to make fairytales accessible and all and a staple in American culture. I find it exceptional how dedicated he was to fairytales and how he personally related to them so much.  Zipes states that he built the perfect studio for creating fairytales in Los Angeles and put so much of himself into many of the characters.  

What I most agree with Zipes on is how Walt Disney did not give credit where credit was due. Although he did change many aspects of the fairytales he reproduced they were not his original ideas and I think it is unfortunate that he did not reference that. Disney's selfish tactics have now made his version of classic tales the base off which many artists now craft their version of tales. I believe this change in base information takes away many aspects or version of fairytales that could interest audiences for years to come. 

Zipes and Disney

One of the main arguments in the article by Jack Zipes is that Walt Disney sought to impose his image of a perfect society onto the tale that was being animated. He outlines the use of oral tradition and folktales and gives a brief background of Disney's animation history. To support his claim he uses the example of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. In this example Zipes outlines many changes that occurs in Disney's version, that was not present in the version by the Brothers Grimm. One of the biggest arguments that Zipes makes is that the role of the prince is greatly enhanced by Disney and that "the prince, the only one who can save Snow White, and he becomes the focal point by the end of the story."
This argument about the prince is what I would like the focus my response on. Disney wanted all the credit for his animation, taking sole credit for the works that had his name on it. Also, as stated earlier by Zipes the animator wishes to impose the greatness of his ideal world. In this sense I take the emphasis of the prince as a metaphor for the self aggrandizement of Walt Disney. Disney sought to increase the role of the prince, just as he was increasing the role he played in the creation of these fairy tales. However, I have a few problems with some of the assertions that Zipes makes. The main problem is that the role of the prince was already increasing (and deviating from the Grimm's version) before Disney came along. A perfect example of this is the silent film version of Snow White. The prince plays a very important role in this version. He is the reason Snow White is sent to be killed, and he brings her back to the palace where she is revived (although he is not directly responsible for her being revived he is insturmental in the chain of events that cause it to happen.) My point is you can already see that there is some major digression from the Grimm's version well before Disney. Also, to hold judgement on him for trying to display his vision of how society should be is also unfair. As we have read in previous articles, for example the article about the role of children, fairy tales are a way to reflect on a society's values. So, while it is true to say that Disney is trying to paint the world with his utopian image, while accurate, is not a fair assessment, because that is that has always been a major component of fairy tales.

Zipes Response

Zipes argues that Disney created his fairytale films, as a meansd of self-betterment and for the pure entertainment of the American public. Zipes discusses how Disney gave little to no credit to the animators and others involved in the making of his films. He also changes the fairytales to fit his own life story and his own life struggles. He not only imposes himself into the traditional fairytales by introducing his films as “Disney’s Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs” and by changing the plots to describe his life, but also by glorifying himself as characters or symbols within the fairytales (for example, the increased presence and influence of the prince in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs).

I have not done any extensive research on Walt Disney and his tendencies as a selfish artist and human being, but as far as I have ever heard, he did seem to be a miserable human being, so as far as I have been informed, I do agree with Zipes' thesis pertaining to Walt Disney. What I do not agree with, though, is Zipes' discrete criticism of American culture, in general, through his criticism of Walt Disney and the fairytale films he created. For instance, Zipes' introduces his arguments in the FIRST paragraph of his essay by writing, “…Disney employed the most up-to-date technological means and used his own “American “ grit and ingenuity to appropriate European fairytales.” Zipes also includes a quote by Richard Schickal which states that, “…It [Disney’s tendency of conquering versus serving] is a trait, as many have observed, that many Americans share when they venture into foreign lands…” Lastly, on page 352, Zipes describes Disney’s fairy tales as the “American” fairy tale. Although there is much truth to the argument that Disney defined what is, today, the “American” fairytale, Zipes infers that the American society created Disney, and thus created these inaccurate, one-dimensional versions of the traditional European fairytale, rather than suggesting that Disney’s versions of the traditional European fairytales helped to shape American culture. I, personally, believe they (Disney and American culture) are products of one another, since culture is a living thing. Zipes makes a lot of good points about Disney, and perhaps the American culture, but I think that generalizing the American culture based on just one American, Walt Disney is very unfair, and inaccurate.

Breaking the Disney Spell

Zack Zipes begins his essay by boldly stating that "Walt Disney cast a spell on the fairy tale, and he has held it captive ever since." Seeing as the casting of spells and the holding of something captive are generally associated with the work of witches, I think it is safe to say that he is skeptical about Disney's strong role in the modernization of the timeless fairy tale. In introducing the fairy tale to a new kind of audience through the use of mass media and modern technology, Disney succeeded in wrestling the fairy tale away from its German ancestry and transforming it into an American genre that "reinforces the social and political status quo."
Zipes proceeds through his argument with a history of the transformation of the fairy tale from an oral tradition meant for the common man to a literary tradition geared towards the elite and literate. If this shift from oral to literary can be called a "violation" of the fairy tale genre, then the production of animated fairy tales can only be viewed as something worse, or perhaps just utterly revolutionary. Once Disney's film industry took hold of the fairy tale and further violated its ancient innocence, Zipes argues that the notion of "self-figuration" offered another dynamic to the changing genre.
Even though Disney kept some key aspects of the Grimms' original tales (i.e. struggles of women in patriarchal society, etc.), Zipes argues that "there is something sad in the manner in which Disney 'violated' the literary genre of the fairy tale and packaged his verions... he employed animators to stop thinking about change, to return to his films, and to long nostalgically for nearly ordered patriarchal realms." In short, Zipes deeply questions whether what Disney did to make fairy tales one of the leading American film genres had a positive or negative effect on this ageold tradition. But fairy tales were changing and evolving (perhaps not for the best) long before Disney grabbed them and ran into a studio. Why was his course of action so much different than that of the elite and the printing press in the 15th - 18th centuries?

Assignment 4- 3.Feb 2009

Hey Alex, Jasmine, Allison, Alexandria and Tim,

Below is your assignment:

Identify the thesis/the argument(s) in Jack Zipes' essay , Breaking the Disney Spell’. Do you agree or disagree with him? Justify the stance you take.

• Posts to be sent in by Midnight on Tuesday
• Comments on two other posts to be posted by Midnight on Wednesday

Looking forward to what you have to say.

Ann

Calvino

Italian Folktales is a collection of 200 Italian folktales published in 1956 by Italo Calvino. Calvino began the project in 1954. Vladimir Propp’s Morphology of the Folktale influenced him. His intention was to emulate the Brothers Grimm in producing a popular collection of Italian fairy tales for the general reader. He did not compile tales from listeners, but made extensive use of the existing work of folklorists; he noted the source of each individual tale, but warned that was merely the version he used.

The story seems to be aimed at children yet the hint at cannibalism seems to make it intended for adults. The story is not educational as the mother gives her no instructions and there is no clear moral at the end of the story. The tale seems to be for amusement or to glorify the rational mind. The intended audience is not a scholar and the tale is not written in a literary style. The style is very simple and told in the way a regular person or a child might tell the story. Giulio Einaudi commissioned the book.
This tale is somewhat different to that of Perrault and the Grimm Brothers. Like in the Grimm version, there is a happy ending for the girl, whereas in Perrault the girl and the grandmother are eaten. The grandmother doesn't survive. The Jordan River and the Rake Gate are included in the tale. This gives the tale a religious feel, which is different from the previous versions. Instead of a wolf, there is a hairy ogress, which is interesting. It gives an element of fantasy to the tale. It takes away the male threat and makes female the threat to children. The story may suggest the threat of the female to the community, the general move towards reason, the threat of famine, and adoption of Marxist ideas.

Accapella Bad Wolf

I thought that this was an interesting interpretation of the wolf. I thought of it when I was reading the Perrault version which makes the wolf a sexual predator and LLRH a sexual figure. Likewise, the song presents the wolf as a sexual predator disguised as a courtly lover or gentleman. The sexual threat is coded in the hip thrusts, which we find funny. To trick LLRH he plays the gentleman or courtly lover. He compliments her, tells her her big her heart is and offers to escort her. The song plays with us by changing up the conventional phrases and presents them from the wolf's perspective. "What big eyes you have?" and "What full lips you have?" The song makes LRRH sexual charged just as Perrault.
January 27, 2009 11:02 PM

Thurber's Version

As Shavit has pointed out, the audience is a very important element to consider when comparing different versions of fairy tales. The version of Little Red Riding Hood that I particularly enjoyed the most was James Thurber's, because I like the comical elements he places in it, particularly the moral at the end of the story.
Thurber wrote this story in the 1930's, and this is crucial not only to the audience, but is also revealing about the culuture that is reading it. The most telling aspect about the audience and culture is contained in the moral at the end: "it is not so easy to fool little girls nowadays as it used to be." By why is this important? To me, I see this as a comment on the creation of the "new woman. " By having the wolf be killed by this female character who seems very prepared to be on her own (she certainly is not intimidated by a male aggressor) he is triumphing this new woman. The culture of the time has started to get used to a more liberated woman, and this is reinforced by Thurber's telling. The girl does not need to rely on a man to save her, just as women of the time were becoming more independent of men (I am aware that Thurber's is not the only version that has this happen.)
As far as audience, I feel that it is geared towards most readers, but perhaps mostly older audiences. While it would be benefiical for younger readers (particularly girls) to feel empowered with the ability to defeat a menacing character like the wolf, older audiences are more likely to appreciate the moral, which reminds us of the previous struggles of women, and their ability to overcome them.

James Thurber's "The Little Girl and the Wolf"

In his essay, Shavit investigates the concept of childhood through an analysis of different versions of "Little Red Riding Hood," namely those of the Brothers Grimm and Perrault. The differences in the two tales is striking, and Shavit offers a detailed explanation as to why. In Perrault's time, the idea of "childhood" did not exist, nor did the notion of an educational system. Therefore it makes sense why Perrault's tale is geared towards an adult, elite audience while the Grimms' version leans toward a youthful audience. The time (century) in which each tale was written (or adapted) played a profound role on the tone, intended audience, moral and ending of each piece.
I found James Thurber's interpretation of "Little Red Riding Hood" the most intriguing, and entertaining. The tale is very short and assumes that the audience is familiar with the story of LRRH. The tale offers no explanation of why the wolf knows that a little girl is going to come skipping through the woods with food for her sick grandmother. Therefore, it is clearly not an educative piece meant for the maleable minds of youth. The tale then proceeds without offering much detail until the Little Girl "had approached no nearer than twenty-five feet from the bed." Clearly, no child would have the slightest concept of spatial orientation in terms of feet and numerical distance. This quotation only furthers the notion that like Perrault, adults are Thurber's target audience. He then makes a contemporary allusion to the Metro-Goldwyn lion and Calvin Coolidge. So not only is his target audience of the adult age, but they must also be learned and intelligent.
Now that the piece's intended audience has been addressed, let's move onto the general tone of the fairy tale. The final sentence before the moral goes as follows: "So the little girl took an automatic out of her basket and shot the wolf dead." Like Perrault, Thurber does not employ a happy ending intended for the education of young minds. Of course, he puts a modern spin on things... yet again targeting his adult audience.

Dahl's “Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf”

The version of Little Red Riding Hood that I would like to focus on (and enjoyed the most) was Roald Dahl’s “Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf”, as well as his “The Three Little Pigs”. The main focus of Shavit’s analysis, when she compares Perrault’s version and the Grimm’s version of Little Red Riding Hood, is the audience. More specifically, whether the audience is focused towards children or adults, and how that is influenced by and representative of the time and culture during which the versions were written. The rhyme scheme that Dahl uses in his “Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf” suggests that the targeted audience is a child.
Dahl, having lived during the 20th century, would most likely gear his version towards a more modern audience. Even if one was not aware of the time during which Dahl lived, one could gather just from the poem that it was probably written relatively recently. One aspect of Dahl’s version that suggests this is that Little Red Riding Hood is presented as a clever, witty, independent female who is aware of dangerous male figures in her surroundings, and thus carries a pistol in her knickers and knows how to use it. In this respect, I also think that the audience is somewhat geared towards adults, in that it invites the enlightened female to identify with Little Red Riding Hood. The version continues to be geared towards children, however, in that it maintains the original moral of the story: there are dangerous strangers in the world that one must look out for, and also teaches children that women are just as able as, say, a trained huntsman.
The poem suggests that it is representative of a more modern time through its emphasis on material goods and the significance of fashion. For example, Little Red Riding Hood totes around in her “WOLFSKIN COAT” at the end of “Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf”. One also sees this fearless (and somewhat cold) female in Dahl’s “Three Little Pigs”. She helps the pig out only to kill him and make herself a pigskin traveling case.
Lastly, both poems suggest that they were written recently, since they are clearly remakes of the old fairy tale. Dahl assumes that his audience is familiar with the Little Red Riding Hood and Three Little Pigs fairy tales since he includes a “guest appearance” of Little Red Riding Hood in his Three Little Pigs version.

Assignment 3- 27.Jan 2009

Hi Alex, Jasmine, Allison, Tim and Alexandria,

Below is the assignment, to which you will send in responses by Midnight on Tuesday.

You have read Shavit's essay comparing the Perrault and Grimm versions of'Little Red Riding Hood'. Using Shavit's method, consider one of the other versions you read for this week (Dahl, Calvino, Thurber, Chiang Mi). With a little research (you may use Wikipedia, since this is not a research paper),outline who you think the audience is and what the fairy tale's retelling says about the culture and time in which it is written.

Looking forward to your posts,

Ann

Part II... "The Pitch"

Here's the basis of our "movie pitch" (i.e. background, scenario, setting, etc.) Since we started an e-mail thread and kept sending our ideas building on the previous person's e-mail, I figured it'd work best to just put everyone's ideas right here together:

Keene's version presented a dark, empty and harsh world during the time of witch-burning. There was also a clash between christian and pagan beliefs and a mix of irrational gender associations. I think his version of 'Hansel and Gretel' would be in the same setting, but just next to woods... obviously.
He also played to the psychological coherence of the story with complex characters, etc. In the case of this story I believe he would portray the era in a time of severe famine since fairy tales tend to adhere to that sort of genre of wish-fulfillment. Child anxiety of abandonment and starvation, therefore leading to thoughts of cannibalism, would certainly come into play. The reading in Tatar mentions "unrestrained giving in to gluttony," "cannibalistic inclinations," and "oral greediness," which could all play a part in Keene's dark world deeply rooted in child anxiety, fear and famine. The setting should be simple in itself (rural, next to the forsaken woods, etc.) while supplying a platform for the development of the complex characters of Hansel and Gretel.

I also picture Keene placing Hansel and Gretel in their early teenage years right when they are starting to explore themselves. This way she could twist it into some sort of awkward incest non sense in the woods, perhaps touching on cannibalism and gender inequalities. So possibly the children go into the woods twice, once to explore and once to be caught.

Keene's mellow demure also makes me question if the witch would die by being shoved into the stove or if would happen more calmly. Possibly the children could trick her into poisoning herself while she is making the stew to cook them in.

I assume Keene would have the step mother run the children into the woods by telling them their father no longer loved them. Also, if the town was in some sort of depression I feel the witch's house in the wood would be very lavish compared to their home they just left.

And if this is supposed to a depiction of the real life events that result in the tale of Hansel and Gretel, like with Keene's Juniper Tree, I think the ending needs to be drastically different than the conventional story that we all know. I think Hansel and Gretel should not cleverly escape the witch and end up being eaten. Perhaps one sibling could survive?
Also, I was thinking that perhaps the way that Hansel and Gretel find their way home the first time would be different. Maybe instead of using pebbles they are able to use the stars to guide them. The second night when they try to use the stars it is cloudy or something so that do not have anything to guide them. The reading suggested that the characters show wisdom in what they do the first time , but the second time they foolishly use bread instead of trying to remember landmarks. Perhaps in Keene's version of Hansel and Gretel the circumstances for their inability to show wisdom will be out of their control (i.e.. clouds blocking the stars)

Also, Keene would probably introduce a class or cultural struggle between the characters. The father and mother could make the children work for a wealthy widow (possible witch-figure) in order to make money for the family to live on. But since they despise the horrible widow, they run away. To put a "Keene twist" on denouement the mother could have died from starvation by the time they reach home, but the children have enough money to survive on meager funds.


(The "I" should be taken collectively, as it represents the views of the group.)

Hansel and Gretel- Part 1

There once was a family in an unidentified place during an unidentified time. The family consisted of a father, a stepmother, and two children. The boy was named Hansel and the girl was Gretel. The family lived in a small cabin in the middle of Nowhere, a town which had been experiencing a horrible famine. One night at dinner the stepmother was so hungry that she grabbed the last piece of bread from Hansel’s hand and scolded him for being so greedy. Disgusted at the stepmother’s harshness towards his son, the father struck the stepmother. Later that night the stepmother and the father were discussing how to respond to the fact that they could clearly not provide for themselves or their children. The stepmother suggested that she take Hansel and Gretel into the forest the next morning in order to gather berries...

Assignment 2- 20.Jan 2009

Hi Alex, Jasmine, Allison, Tim and Alexandria,

Below is a copy of the Assignment that was discussed in class today.


The first thing about this assignment that differentiates it from last week's, is the fact that it is going to be TEAMWORK!

Given that you have watched ,,The Juniper Tree'' and attended today's discussion of what this movie portrays, try to, as a group, come up with what Keene's version of ,,Hansel and Gretel", would be. In what sort of a world could this story have been written?

We could assume that the kids are 11 and 13 and the witch is ,,a lone woman'' who lives in a hut in the forest.

Looking forward to all your version of ,,Hansel and Gretel"!

Ann

Posts in time!

Great to see that almost all of you have posted. There's lots of interesting ideas here.

Essay Response

While both essays are well written, one stood out to me when thinking about which helped me to see fairytales as more then just children's entertainment. While Darnton's essay is very well written and is supported by many outside sources it read like a research paper and missed the personal aspect, I was hoping for. While Darton did show me how fairtales are more then simple children's reading, I feel Bettelheim presented his ideas in a better fashion. Bettelheim explained in depth how fairytales were a great way to express culture and heritage and directly states how children's literature falls short. Bettelheim's arguments I felt were well rounded. Although he did not separate fairytales from children he showed how fairtales help solve inner problems and life predicaments, which are bold statements. With so many life lessons and underlying adult nature I believe Bettelheim did a good job of proving that fairytales are more then just light bed time reading. 

Which one pick one

I found the Darton essay more helpful. He completely eliminates the notion that they were made for children. The introduction that includes the grandmother fairy tale demonstrates the fairy tales were not for children with its subject matter. He points out that many of the authentic versions of the common fairy tales included raw brutality that was not masked making them very adult and inappropriate by Bettelheim's standards. The morals that Bettelheim suggests helps develop the mature child are transferred to adults. Adult women learn that marriage is not grand or that all men are not gentlemen. I also like that he makes fairy tales an adult tradition. He also mentions that fairy tales are historical documents routed in oral storytelling. Usually we image telling fairy tales to children at bedtime but Darton invites us to think of adults telling fairy tales to adults when he speaks of the oral origins of fairy tales. He suggests that the were told to other adults, who were sitting around the campfire after work. He suggests that they are the products of the culture and modified for the audience's benefit.