Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Posts in time!
Great to see that almost all of you have posted. There's lots of interesting ideas here.
Essay Response
While both essays are well written, one stood out to me when thinking about which helped me to see fairytales as more then just children's entertainment. While Darnton's essay is very well written and is supported by many outside sources it read like a research paper and missed the personal aspect, I was hoping for. While Darton did show me how fairtales are more then simple children's reading, I feel Bettelheim presented his ideas in a better fashion. Bettelheim explained in depth how fairytales were a great way to express culture and heritage and directly states how children's literature falls short. Bettelheim's arguments I felt were well rounded. Although he did not separate fairytales from children he showed how fairtales help solve inner problems and life predicaments, which are bold statements. With so many life lessons and underlying adult nature I believe Bettelheim did a good job of proving that fairytales are more then just light bed time reading.
Which one pick one
I found the Darton essay more helpful. He completely eliminates the notion that they were made for children. The introduction that includes the grandmother fairy tale demonstrates the fairy tales were not for children with its subject matter. He points out that many of the authentic versions of the common fairy tales included raw brutality that was not masked making them very adult and inappropriate by Bettelheim's standards. The morals that Bettelheim suggests helps develop the mature child are transferred to adults. Adult women learn that marriage is not grand or that all men are not gentlemen. I also like that he makes fairy tales an adult tradition. He also mentions that fairy tales are historical documents routed in oral storytelling. Usually we image telling fairy tales to children at bedtime but Darton invites us to think of adults telling fairy tales to adults when he speaks of the oral origins of fairy tales. He suggests that the were told to other adults, who were sitting around the campfire after work. He suggests that they are the products of the culture and modified for the audience's benefit.
Fairy Tale Lessons
This question is indeed a difficult one to deal with, because it can be interpreted in different ways. Darton's essay is interesting, because it enables readers to consider things about fairy tales that go beyond the simple story. His essay is well written, and is enhanced by numerous sources that he deals with. He focuses mainly on the historical development of fairy tales, which may be well and good for anthropologists, psychoanalysts, and general trivia enthusiasts, but at the end of the day what child reading these stories would really care about such matters. Remember, children are the target audience for fairy tales. In my opinion, this question is not asking how what adults can get out of studying fairy tales, but what can children take from them.
Bettelheim deals directly with the issue of viewing fairy tales as more than simply an entertainment source for children. He argues that the fairy tale enables readers to learn appropriate moral behaviors. The most striking point Bettelheim makes is his assertion that modern day stories for children tend to shy away from altercations and are "shallow," yet fairy tales show that struggles in life are unavoidable and that they must be dealt with. So, for Bettelheim, the fairy tale is a way for children to learn important life lessons. Although his argument is the most applicable, his essay would have been enhanced even more by bringing in more sources to back up his viewpoints. So for me, Bettleheim's argument is the most applicable for the question, and was the most influential in helping me understand how fairy tales are more than just entertainment for children.
Bettelheim deals directly with the issue of viewing fairy tales as more than simply an entertainment source for children. He argues that the fairy tale enables readers to learn appropriate moral behaviors. The most striking point Bettelheim makes is his assertion that modern day stories for children tend to shy away from altercations and are "shallow," yet fairy tales show that struggles in life are unavoidable and that they must be dealt with. So, for Bettelheim, the fairy tale is a way for children to learn important life lessons. Although his argument is the most applicable, his essay would have been enhanced even more by bringing in more sources to back up his viewpoints. So for me, Bettleheim's argument is the most applicable for the question, and was the most influential in helping me understand how fairy tales are more than just entertainment for children.
The Fairy Tale: More Than Just Child's Play
While Darnton discusses the similarities and dissimilarities between folk tales of different cultures, Bettelheim directly visits the role of the fairy tale as a moral instructor that appeals to the developing unconscious of youth. He argues that while empty, modern children’s literature attempts to entertain, the traditional fairy tale enriches, stimulates and encourages the imagination. Only through developing the unconscious can a child truly develop a conscious set of morals. In providing a child with a full store of moral training through the concealed ethical principles of folk tales, he is equipped to deal with life’s difficulties in an unwavering, honorable fashion. Fairy tales set the unconscious free, permitting the imagination to instruct as it may through the moral codes established at the basis of their lessons. For these reasons, fairy tales are much more than children’s entertainment. They are the teachers that create the foundation for every child’s moral character.
Resonse to Bettelheim and Darnton Question
At first, my response to this question seemed obvious. But then, after having looked over the texts and the question a little more, I realized that one can interpret the question in two different ways.
My first interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of how children, specifically, learn and benefit from them. My obvious response to this interpretation of the question is that Bettelheim’s “The Struggle for Meaning” helped me to think of fairy tales, as not only a means of entertaining children, but also as a means of teaching them. Bettelheim discusses how a child can find meaning in life through fairy tales. For instance, fairy tales deal with universal human problems and the ethically appropriate solutions. Although fairy tales do not reflect modern mass society, the values and morals discussed in fairy tales do, for the most part, remain unchanged today.
Another interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of thinking past the most common application of fairy tales today –children’s stories, and looking at them as historical pieces which represent the culture during which they were created. My response to this interpretation would be that Darnton’s text, “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose”. Darnton discusses original recordings of French fairy tales and how inappropriate and disgusting they were. He discusses and criticizes Bettelheim’s, as well as Fromm’s, interpretation of certain fairy tales. He also discusses how fairy tales were originally passed on orally, and how amazing it is that this technique was surprisingly pretty accurate.
My first interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of how children, specifically, learn and benefit from them. My obvious response to this interpretation of the question is that Bettelheim’s “The Struggle for Meaning” helped me to think of fairy tales, as not only a means of entertaining children, but also as a means of teaching them. Bettelheim discusses how a child can find meaning in life through fairy tales. For instance, fairy tales deal with universal human problems and the ethically appropriate solutions. Although fairy tales do not reflect modern mass society, the values and morals discussed in fairy tales do, for the most part, remain unchanged today.
Another interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of thinking past the most common application of fairy tales today –children’s stories, and looking at them as historical pieces which represent the culture during which they were created. My response to this interpretation would be that Darnton’s text, “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose”. Darnton discusses original recordings of French fairy tales and how inappropriate and disgusting they were. He discusses and criticizes Bettelheim’s, as well as Fromm’s, interpretation of certain fairy tales. He also discusses how fairy tales were originally passed on orally, and how amazing it is that this technique was surprisingly pretty accurate.
Assignment 1- 13.Jan 2009
Hi Alex, Jasmine, Allison, Alexandria and Tim,
Below you will find the question to which all of you must post one response by Tuesday Midnight.
On Wednesday, there will be four posts to read, since you have four group mates. Read through their responses and comment on at least two of them. You could agree, disagree, pose a related question and try to build on what the other person has said.
By Wednesday Midnight, you will have to have posted the comments, so that I can look through what you have written, and forward interesting posts/comments to Prof. Figal.
THE QUESTION FOR 13.JANUARY 2009:
Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?
Darnton, Robert. “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
or
Bettelheim, Bruno. “The Struggle for Meaning,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
Looking forward to your responses!
Ann
Below you will find the question to which all of you must post one response by Tuesday Midnight.
On Wednesday, there will be four posts to read, since you have four group mates. Read through their responses and comment on at least two of them. You could agree, disagree, pose a related question and try to build on what the other person has said.
By Wednesday Midnight, you will have to have posted the comments, so that I can look through what you have written, and forward interesting posts/comments to Prof. Figal.
THE QUESTION FOR 13.JANUARY 2009:
Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?
Darnton, Robert. “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
or
Bettelheim, Bruno. “The Struggle for Meaning,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
Looking forward to your responses!
Ann
I'm Alex Howard and I'm a Junior French and European Studies major. I think this course just sounds awesome. How can you beat a class devoted to fairy tales? Plus, I was borderline obsessed with Beauty and the Beast growing up. So, learning about it and other fairy tales sounds interesting to me (and this course counts towards my EUS major).
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